Editing MEpedia talk:Editorial guidelines

==Suggesting some updates==
I feel that we have a link of separate page that are relevant but not linked to. Plus the Editorial guidelines don't explicitly mention the purpose of MEpedia. I would like add a section at the top, something like:
===Aims and purpose===
MEpedia aims to provide accurate and [[MEpedia:Verifiability|verifiable]] information about '''myalgic encephalomyelitis''' and '''chronic fatigue syndrome'''. All articles must be 
*'''relevant''' to ME
* about a '''notable''' topic, and
* cite some '''reliable''', '''independent''' sources connecting the topic to ME.<br /><br />Pages with limited or no relevance may be [[MEpedia:Deletion policy|deleted]], for example an article about a doctor who treats ME is not relevant unless the doctor is a also specialist in ME, a researcher in ME, an advocate or activist for ME, or similar. Simply treating a few patients with ME as part of their normal practice would not be relevant or significant enough. Similarly, an article about a book written by someone with ME is only relevant of the book is primarily about ME. MEpedia pages must be '''neutral''', not '''promotional'''.

''Plus at the end, a list of relevant pages, e.g. - ''

===Specific policies===
{{PagesInCategory|MEpedia policies}}

''I also think these should be linked to, which could be done by the code above if we add them to [[:Category:MEpedia policies]] -''
==Editorial policies and guidelines==
*[[MEpedia#Aims]]
*[[MEpedia:Article outlines]]
*[[MEpedia:Assume good faith]]
*[[MEpedia:Citing MEpedia]]
*[[MOS:DATE|Date and time formatting]]
*[[MEpedia:Dead links]]
*[[MEpedia:Discussion and collaboration]]
*[[MEpedia:Edit summaries]]
*[[MEpedia:Internal links]]
*[[MEpedia:Manual_of_style#Layout]]
*[[MEpedia:Lead paragraph]]
*[[Help:Maintenance template removal]]
*[[MEpedia:News article formatting]]
*[[MOS:NUM|Number formatting]]
*[[MEpedia:Ref spam]]
*[[MEpedia:Referencing for beginners]]
*[[MEpedia:Subpages]]
*[[MEpedia:Substitution]]
*[[MEpedia:Vandalism]]

''I am also finding many editors creating new pages without using the article outlines, this could be added above the bullets to address this:''

===Creating new pages===
*New articles should be created using a skeleton outline from [[MEpedia:Article outlines]] in order to keep a consistent style and add relevant categories.
*Articles should start as described by the [[MEpedia:Lead paragraph]] document.
*Creating new portals require changes to the [[Welcome_to_MEpedia|main page]] and other portal pages, and needs to be discussed in advance. Portals are normally created by [[MEpedia:Substitution]] and admin input is needed to connect them to existing portals. Use the talk pages to make suggestions.
*New MediaWiki pages can only be created by [[MEpedia:Interface administrators]]. Use the portal talk pages to add requests.

''Thoughts?''  ~[[User:Notjusttired|Njt]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]]) 17:51, October 23, 2021 (UTC)

==Redirects==
Do folks find it more helpful to keep misspelled entries as redirects to the correct name (e.g. pointing [[Zach Shan]] to [[Zack Shan]]), or delete the misspelled version? Some trade-offs:
* Deleting them means the dropdown results in the search bar will be less cluttered.
* Keeping them means if anyone makes the same misspelling in the future, they will still be guided to the correct entry. For instance, if someone created a link to [[Zach Shan]] in another entry, it would still take the reader to the correct researcher.
Here's is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect#Reasons_for_not_deleting Wikipedia's guidance] on this issue, but MEpedia may have different needs so I thought I'd ask for opinions. Thanks! [[User:Canele|Canele]] ([[User talk:Canele|talk]]) 19:11, 17 January 2019 (EST)
::I feel strongly that misspelled names are to be corrected and the misspellings deleted. Using a misspelling of a person's name is disrespectful to that person. If someone goes by more than one variation of his/her name, all of those variations should be noted with redirects to his or her main bio, e.g., Geraldine Cambridge and Jo Cambridge, or Roberto Patarca and Roberto Patarca-Montero. I can think of no needs that MEpedia could have that precludes the use of this common standard. [[User:Kmdenmark|Kmdenmark]] ([[User talk:Kmdenmark|talk]]) 21:19, 18 January 2019 (EST)
:::Misspelled names only appear when you start typing a page name - which is confusing since you don't know which to pick - or doing a full content search eg when the name you were looking for didn't come up. I tend to favor keeping redirects ''if'' searching by the mispelled name doesn't find the correct spelling. With adding links to authors by the visual editor redirects help because they connect the 2 spellings so both appear - and the icon shows which is correct. I am OK either way but would strongly suggest keeping redirects like ''Z Shan'' in order to help the visual editor find the correct author. When it comes to certain topics that are often spelled wrong redirects are a great help.  [[User:Notjusttired|notjusttired]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]]) 13:29, 7 May 2019 (EDT)

== Rename to MEpedia:Editorial guidelines ==
Any objection if this page "Editorial Guidelines" is renamed to "MEpedia:Editorial guidelines"? 
<br>Since this page is about the MEpedia project itself, it really should belong in the MEpedia namespace. ("MEpedia:") 
<br>[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 20:41, 18 March 2019 (EDT)
:Let's do it. [[User:Canele|Canele]] ([[User talk:Canele|talk]]) 19:09, 19 March 2019 (EDT)

==Do not give advice ==
I have added this to clarify. It is especially relevant when describing treatment protocols or dose suggestions for medications. I added similar to the scientific guidelines. [[User:JaimeS]] [[User:JenB]] [[User:Kmdenmark]] [[User:Pyrrhus]] [[User:Hip]] [[User:DxCFS]] [[User:MEandCFS]] [[User:Notjusttired|notjusttired]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]]) 09:56, 3 May 2019 (EDT)
:This would belong in the science guidelines, not the editorial guidelines.  I'll copy this discussion over there.
:[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 14:23, 3 May 2019 (EDT)
:: I agree wholeheartedly not to give medical advice. I feel uncomfortable with the pages that do. It can inadvertently cause harm. [[User:Kmdenmark|Kmdenmark]] ([[User talk:Kmdenmark|talk]]) 16:01, 11 May 2019 (EDT)
:::Any objection if I remove this section as it already exists in the Science Guidelines here: https://www.me-pedia.org/wiki/MEpedia:Science_guidelines#No_advice
::: I worry that repeating ourselves will make the guidelines too long.  If we want people to read them, we should keep them short and sweet.
:::[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 00:48, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
I agree with adding the section not to give medical advice in the editorial guidelines. See this as one of the most important things people should know if they want to contribute to MEpedia. - Sisyphus. 

==Image sources ==
We have some under different licenses, which we have been able to set for some time with the upload tool. I suggest changing the wording to add ''unless otherwise stated'' since we have some fair use images, and some scientific images licensed as reuse without modified or Non-commercial reuse / No derivatives. This content wouldn't be practicable to recreate. Plus of course, so many millions missing photos. I think the editorial guidelines have been out of step with [[MEpedia copyrights]] and [[Help:Images]] for a while. [[User:JaimeS]] [[User:JenB]] [[User:Notjusttired|notjusttired]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]]) 13:29, 7 May 2019 (EDT)

==External links embedded in text ==
I think all external links belong in references or learn more. Some articles rely heavily on many external links - including some of the most popular articles that may have been created when there was far less content to link to on here. I think the editorial policy should say internal links only in the content. Also I suggest removing Wikipedia from the article outlines given it is not acceptable in the Science guidelines. [[User:Notjusttired|notjusttired]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]]) 13:29, 7 May 2019 (EDT)
: I'm in favor of keeping Wikipedia links in the "Learn More" sections, in cases where the Wikipedia page is substantial.  Linking to wikipedia as a companion source of information is qualitatively different from using it as a citation, in my opinion.  An official ruling on this would be helpful. -- [[User:EscapeTheFog|EscapeTheFog]] ([[User talk:EscapeTheFog|talk]]) 01:57, June 13, 2019 (EDT)
::Paging [[User:JaimeS]]... :)
::[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 20:25, June 14, 2019 (EDT)
===Re: External links embedded in text -- [[User:JaimeS|JaimeS]] ([[User talk:JaimeS|talk]]) 14:18, June 26, 2019 (EDT)===
: I'm actually okay with using Wikipedia sources in the Learn More section but ONLY as [[User:EscapeTheFog]] mentions, when the article is superlative.  
: Regarding external links, I'd say the same wobbly rule, unfortunately. Generally speaking we should be linking within the Wiki and external links should be rare. Think, internal links first, if there is nothing that works internally, then external link.
: Our ultimate goal is that people know where good resources are located. If Wikipedia or another external source is the best we've got, we lead them there.
::Has this issue been resolved?  Do we need to add anything to the page?
::[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 13:55, October 24, 2019 (EDT)
:::Typical cases we come across are links to organizations, books they wrote or particularly notable events in the start of articles - all of which should be in Learn more anyway (or changed to a reference). Also external Wikipedia links within the text about related topics or defining a term - those should be removed or in Learn more i in my view. [[User:JaimeS]]  ~[[User:Notjusttired|Njt]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]])

==Consensus ==
There's no mention here of editing by consensus (between editors), or of scientific consensus - also not in the Science guidelines. Scientific consensus could mean expert consensus or could mean widely accepted between doctors or advocates  [[User:Notjusttired|notjusttired]] ([[User talk:Notjusttired|talk]]) 17:37, August 10, 2019 (EDT)
:Oh, there should definitely be some mention that working on a collaborative encyclopedia means that editorial decisions must be made by consensus.
:I don't think we can say anything about scientific consensus, since there is (unfortunately) no scientific consensus about anything related to ME/CFS.  Even when there appears to be a scientific consensus, such as with the BPS approach, the scientific consensus can be dead wrong.  
:[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 13:55, October 24, 2019 (EDT)

==Links that may be worth adding ==
*reminder of US spelling, with link to manual of style, except on translated pages of course 
*making large changes - how best to go about it 
*removing paragraphs or topics from a page - do we suggest moving to talk page, or discussion first, or does it depend on if it's a popular or long page, often edited, or if it's suspected spam? I'm thinking of short pages that are rarely edited, or new pages too.
*we don't have a page deletion policy 
*when to revert edits, and if to discuss first 
*dispute policy?
--Notjusttired
:Except for the first bullet point, these would be good topics to address in [[MEpedia:Discussion and collaboration]] or [[MEpedia:Deletion policy]].  Not sure they would belong in the editorial guidelines, though.
:[[User:Pyrrhus|Pyrrhus]] ([[User talk:Pyrrhus|talk]]) 13:55, October 24, 2019 (EDT)

==Links ==
Links to related topics in manual of style or science guidelines would be good

== Writing about living persons ==

I think that a sentence should be added to these guidelines which roughly summarizes [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons Wikipedia's policy on writing about living persons]. The specific phrasing can be changed, but it could be:

* '''Writing about living persons''': Special care needs to be taken when writing about living persons with regards to privacy, neutrality, and proper sourcing of material. Personal or contentious information about living persons (positive, negative, or neutral) which is unsourced or improperly sourced should be removed immediately, and pages about people should not have the appearance of being attack pages. For more guidance, see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons Wikipedia's policy on writing about living persons].

--[[User:Pwc|Pwc]] ([[User talk:Pwc|talk]]) 03:07, August 4, 2022 (UTC)